• Climate change cooling off?

    From Sean Dennis@618:618/1 to All on Sat Dec 6 17:57:27 2025
    From: https://shorturl.at/Kle30 (nypost.com)

    ===
    Opinion

    Climate change doom-and-gloomers are finally bowing out- and showing that common
    sense prevails

    By Matt Ridley
    Published Dec. 5, 2025, 8:51 p.m. ET

    Finally, thankfully, the global warming craze is dying out. To paraphrase
    Monty Python, the climate parrot may still be nailed to its perch at the
    recent COP summit in Belem, Brazil - or at Harvard and on CNN - but
    elsewhere it's dead. It's gone to meet its maker, kicked the bucket,
    shuffled off this mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the choir
    invisible. By failing to pledge a cut in fossil fuels, COP achieved less
    than nothing, the venue caught fire, the air-conditioning malfunctioned -
    and delegates were told on arrival not to flush toilet paper. Bill Gates's
    recent apologia, in which he conceded that global warming "will not lead
    to humanity's demise," after he closed the policy and advocacy office of
    his climate philanthropy group is just the latest nail in the coffin.

    In October, the Net Zero Banking Alliance shut down after JPMorgan Chase,
    Citigroup, Bank of America, Morgan Stanley, Wells Fargo and Goldman Sachs
    led a stampede of other banks out the door. Shell and BP have returned to
    being oil companies, to the delight of their shareholders. Ford is about
    to cease production of electric pickups that nobody wants. Hundreds of
    other companies are dropping their climate targets. Australia has backed
    out of hosting next year's climate conference.

    According to analysis by the Washington Post, it is not just Republicans
    who have given up on climate change: the Democratic party has stopped
    talking about it, hardly mentioning it during Kamala Harris's campaign for
    president last year. The topic has dropped to the bottom half of a table
    of 23 concerns among Swedish youths. Even the European Parliament has
    voted to exempt many companies from reporting rules that require them to
    state how they are helping fight climate change.

    It has been a long, lucrative ride. Predicting the eco-apocalypse has
    always been a profitable business, spawning subsidies, salaries,
    consulting fees, air miles, best-sellers and research grants. Different
    themes took turns as the scare du jour: overpopulation, oil spills,
    pollution, desertification, mass extinction, acid rain, the ozone layer,
    nuclear winter, falling sperm counts. Each faded as the evidence became
    more equivocal, the public grew bored or, in some cases, the problem was
    resolved by a change in the law or practice.

    But no scare grew as big or lasted as long as global warming. I first
    wrote a doom-laden article for the Economist about carbon dioxide
    emissions trapping heat in the air in 1987, nearly 40 years ago. I soon
    realized the effect was real but the alarm was overdone, that feedback
    effects were exaggerated in the models. The greenhouse effect was likely
    to be a moderate inconvenience rather than an existential threat. For this
    blasphemy I was abused, canceled, blacklisted, called a "denier" and
    generally deemed evil. In 2010, in the pages of the Wall Street Journal I
    debated Gates, who poured scorn on my argument that global warming was not
    likely to be a catastrophe - so it is welcome to see him come round to my
    view.

    Greta has moved on

    The activists who took over the climate debate, often with minimal
    understanding of climate science, competed for attention by painting ever
    more catastrophic pictures of future global warming. They changed the name
    to "climate change" so they could blame it for blizzards as well as heat
    waves. Then they inflated the language to "climate emergency" and "climate
    crisis," even as projections of future warming came down.

    "I'm talking about the slaughter, death and starvation of six billion
    people this century. That's what the science predicts," said Roger Hallam,
    founder of Extinction Rebellion in 2019, though the science says no such
    thing. "A top climate scientist is warning that climate change will wipe
    out humanity unless we stop using fossil fuels over the next five years,"
    tweeted Greta Thunberg in 2018. Five years later she deleted her tweet and
    shortly after that decided that Palestine was a more promising way of
    staying in the limelight.

    Scientists knew pronouncements like this were nonsense but they turned a
    blind eye because the alarm kept the grant money coming. Journalists
    always love exaggeration. Capitalists were happy to cash in. Politicians
    welcomed the chance to blame others: if a wildfire or a flood devastates
    your town, point the finger at the changing climate rather than your own
    failure to prepare. Almost nobody had an incentive to downplay the alarm.

    Unlike previous scares, climate fear has the valuable feature that it can
    always be presented in the future tense. No matter how mild the change in
    the weather proves to be today, you can always promise Armageddon
    tomorrow. So it was that for four long decades, climate-change alarm went
    on a long march through the institutions, capturing newsrooms, schoolrooms
    and boardrooms. By 2020 no meeting, even of a town council or a sports
    team, was complete without a hand-wringing discussion of carbon
    footprints. The other factor that kept the climate scare alive was that
    reducing emissions proved impossibly difficult. This was a feature, not a
    bug: if it had been easy, the green gravy train would have ground to a
    halt. Reducing sulfur emissions to stop acid rain proved fairly easy, as
    did banning chlorofluorocarbons to protect the ozone layer. But decade
    after decade, carbon dioxide emissions just kept on rising, no matter how
    much money and research was thrown at the problem. Cheers!

    Switching to renewable energy made no difference, literally. Here's the
    data: the world added 9,000 terawatt-hours per year of energy consumption
    from wind and solar in the past decade, but 13,000 from fossil fuels. Not
    that wind and solar save much carbon dioxide anyway, their machinery being
    made with coal and their intermittency being backed up by fossil fuels.

    Dwindling donations

    Despite trillions of dollars in subsidies, these two "unreliables" still
    provide just 6 percent of the world's energy. Their low-density,
    high-cost, intermittent power output is of no use to data centers or
    electric grids, let alone transport and heating, and it effectively
    poisons the economics of building and running new nuclear and gas
    generation sites by preventing continuous operation. Quite why it became
    mandatory among those concerned about climate change to support these
    unreliables so obsessively is hard to fathom. Subsidy addiction has a lot
    to do with it, combined with a general ignorance of thermodynamics.

    Now the climate scare is fading, a scramble for the exits is beginning
    among the big environmental groups. Donations are drying up. Some will
    switch seamlessly to trying to panic us about artificial intelligence;
    others will follow Gates and insist that they never said it was the end of
    the world, just a problem to be solved; a few will even try declaring
    victory, claiming unconvincingly that promises made at the Paris
    climate-change conference a decade ago have slowed emissions enough to
    save the planet.

    Of course, Al Gore, the former vice president who did more than anybody
    else to alarm the world about climate change and made a $300 million
    fortune from it, has been at the recent conference in the Brazilian jungle
    - the one where they felled a forest to build the access road. As he
    railed against Gates last week for abandoning the cause and accused him of
    being bullied by President Trump, he sounded like one of those Japanese
    soldiers emerging from the jungle who did not know World War Two was over.

    Perhaps Gore might now regret his exaggerated preachings of hellfire and
    damnation. In his 2006 film An Inconvenient Truth, for which he jointly
    won a Nobel Prize, he predicted a sea-level rise of up to 20 feet "in the
    near future" - out by around 19 feet and nine inches. In 2009, he said
    there was a 75 percent chance all the ice in the Arctic Ocean would
    disappear by 2014. In that year there was 5 million square kilometers of
    the stuff at its lowest point - about the same as in 2009; this year there
    was 4.7 million square kilometers. At the film's showing at the Sundance
    Festival, Gore said that unless drastic measures to reduce greenhouse
    gases were taken within 10 years, the world would reach a point of no
    return. Yet here we are, 19 years later.

    Wears down voters

    Gore is correct that fear of retribution from the Trump administration
    drives some of the corporate retreats. President Trump has already
    canceled $300 billion of green infrastructure funding and purged
    government websites of climate rhetoric. But even if the Republicans lose
    the White House in 2028, it will be hard to reinflate the climate balloon.
    The proportion of Americans greatly worried about climate change is
    dropping. If Trump takes America out of the 1992 treaty that set up the
    United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change it would require an
    unlikely two-thirds vote of the Senate to rejoin.

    Bjorn Lomborg, the Danish economist who is president of the Copenhagen
    Consensus and has fought a lonely battle against climate exaggeration for
    decades, recently explained the shift in public opinion: "The shrillness
    of climate doom also wears down voters. While climate is a real and
    man-made problem, constant end-of-the-world proclamations from media and
    campaigners massively overstate the situation."

    A key figure in the collapse of the climatocracy is Chris Wright, the
    pioneer of extracting shale gas by hydraulic fracturing who was appointed
    by Trump as Energy Secretary this year. Wright commissioned a review of
    climate science by five distinguished academics who set out just how
    non-frightening the facts of climate change are: slowly rising
    temperatures, mainly at night in winter and in the north, correspondingly
    less in daytime in summer and in the tropics where most people live,
    accompanied by a very slow rise in sea level showing no definite
    acceleration, minimal if any measurable change in the average frequency
    and ferocity of storms, droughts and floods - and record low levels of
    deaths from such causes. Plus a general increase in green vegetation,
    caused by the extra carbon dioxide.

    Melissa, the category-5 hurricane that devastated Jamaica last month,
    killed around 50 people. In the past - before global warming - hurricanes
    like that killed tens if not hundreds of thousands. In total, weather
    events killed just 2,200 people globally in the first half of this year, a
    record low, whereas indoor air pollution caused by poor people cooking
    over wood fires because they lack access to gas and electricity kills
    three million a year. So yes, Gates, influenced by Lomborg and Wright, is
    correct to say that getting cheap, reliable, clean energy to the poor is
    by far the more urgent priority.

    Sources tell me that Wright is treated like a rock star at international
    conferences: his fellow ministers, especially those from Africa and Asia,
    are thrilled to talk about the need to get energy to people instead of
    being hectored about emissions. Only a few western European ministers
    sneer, but even some of them (the British being an exception) quietly
    admit that they need to find a way to climb down off their green high
    horses.

    Gas glut

    Fortunately, they now have convenient cover for doing so: artificial
    intelligence. We would love to go on subsidizing wind and solar, say the
    Germans privately, but if we are to have data centers, we need lots more
    reliable and affordable power so we will now build gas - and maybe even
    some nuclear - turbines.

    Likewise, throughout the tech world of the American west coast, emoting
    about climate suddenly seems like a luxury belief compared with the need
    to sign contracts with firm power suppliers, mostly burning natural gas -
    or get left behind in the AI race. The world's gas glut is impossible to
    overstate: thanks to fracking, we have centuries' worth of cheap gas. The
    tech bros are piling into nuclear, too, but that won't address the needs
    for extra power until well into the next decade - and the need is now.

    The climatastrophe has been a terrible mistake. It diverted attention from
    real environmental problems, cost a fortune, impoverished consumers,
    perpetuated poverty, frightened young people into infertility, wasted
    years of our time, undermined democracy and corrupted science. Time to
    bury the parrot.
    ===

    -- Sean

    --- MultiMail/Win
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)
  • From Rob Mccart@618:250/1 to SEAN DENNIS on Mon Dec 8 08:25:00 2025
    Finally, thankfully, the global warming craze is dying out. To paraphrase
    >Monty Python, the climate parrot may still be nailed to its perch at the
    >recent COP summit in Belem, Brazil - or at Harvard and on CNN - but
    >elsewhere it's dead.

    It's an easy subject to find people to violently argue either side..

    I've always figured it was being blown out of proportion, not because
    climate change doesn't exist, but because it's happened over and over
    through history and I doubt we can be blamed for more than a tiny
    percentage of the change. We can maybe speed it up or slow it down
    very slightly but it's happening one way or another, just like it did
    4000 years ago where we still have written records about it rather
    than just the archaelogical evidence of climate shifts.

    That time it lasted for about 3000 years so get used to it..
    Any idea that we could turn this around in even a few hundred
    years by changing our habits is fantasy..

    They were growing crops in Britain 4000 years ago that they can't
    grow today because it is now too COLD..

    The world has spent about 65% of its time with no polar ice caps.

    Global warming or returning to normal?

    I often suggest that people who really want to know more, and not
    just go with the popular talk, should read a book by Michael Crichton
    called State of Fear, an entertaining thriller about eco-terrorists
    but which contains a lot of factual information about climate change
    and even lists the scientific articles to back it all up.

    I beleive it was in that book where I read how any scientists who
    went against the government party line on global warming lost their
    funding and couldn't get papers published.

    ---
    * SLMR Rob * No sense being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)
  • From August Abolins@618:400/23.10 to Rob Mccart on Mon Dec 8 12:42:00 2025
    Hello Rob!

    ** On Monday 08.12.25 - 08:25, Rob Mccart wrote to SEAN DENNIS:

    I often suggest that people who really want to know more, and not
    just go with the popular talk, should read a book by Michael Crichton called State of Fear, an entertaining thriller about eco-terrorists
    but which contains a lot of factual information about climate change
    and even lists the scientific articles to back it all up.

    The book is certainly an odd creation of speculation, fiction,
    and fact.

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.64
    * Origin: (618:400/23.10)
  • From Sean Dennis@618:618/1 to Rob Mccart on Mon Dec 8 16:02:29 2025
    Hello Rob,

    08 Dec 25 08:25, you wrote to me:

    I beleive it was in that book where I read how any scientists who
    went against the government party line on global warming lost their funding and couldn't get papers published.

    Climate change is real as the Earth is a dynamic environment. However, it's the so-called "man-made" climate change I have issue with since all the data for that has been delibrately skewered.

    In 2012, I was going to East Tennessee State University to get a bachelor's degree in geoscience. However, when the staff found out I was not a worshipper, they ran me out of the university on a rail.

    I mean, Mother Nature is gonna do what she wants anyway. If the Yellowstone caldera blows, we're all dead. XD

    -- Sean

    ... There's no future in time travel.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)
  • From Rob Mccart@618:250/1 to SEAN DENNIS on Wed Dec 10 08:15:16 2025
    I beleive it was in that book where I read how any scientists who
    went against the government party line on global warming lost their
    funding and couldn't get papers published.

    Climate change is real as the Earth is a dynamic environment. However, it's
    >the so-called "man-made" climate change I have issue with since all the data
    >for that has been delibrately skewered.

    Yes, we may have a slight influence on things but in the scale of
    the world I don't think we have much of an effect.
    In any case, if we started it we won't be able to stop it for
    probably hundreds of years because we aren't going to stop making
    carbon any time soon..

    In 2012, I was going to East Tennessee State University to get a bachelor's
    >degree in geoscience. However, when the staff found out I was not a
    >worshipper, they ran me out of the university on a rail.

    That bites.. I've had teachers who didn't agree with me retaliate with
    bad marks but at least I was still there, and I could always fake my
    opinions to get the marks back up. I gave up early looking at school
    as a place to learn, it was just a chore to get through before moving
    on to Real life..

    I mean, Mother Nature is gonna do what she wants anyway.
    >If the Yellowstone caldera blows, we're all dead. XD

    That's happened 3 times in the past and we are still here so, it
    likely wouldn't be pleasant, but I think some of us would survive it.

    People in Florida and Texas would just have to get used to Canadian
    weather for a few hundred years.. B)

    ---
    * SLMR Rob * All extremists should be taken out and shot
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)
  • From Mike Powell@618:250/1 to ROB MCCART on Wed Dec 10 09:44:10 2025
    Yes, we may have a slight influence on things but in the scale of
    the world I don't think we have much of an effect.
    In any case, if we started it we won't be able to stop it for
    probably hundreds of years because we aren't going to stop making
    carbon any time soon..

    Oh, of course we can! All we have to do is give in and stop using cars and start eating the bugs and the lab-grown goo they caringly supply us with... while they sit back and eat steaks and fly in private jets.

    Mike

    * SLMR 2.1a * Warning! Incomprehensible action is about to occur.
    --- SBBSecho 3.28-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)
  • From Rob Mccart@618:250/1 to AUGUST ABOLINS on Thu Dec 11 09:13:48 2025
    I often suggest that people who really want to know more, and not
    just go with the popular talk, should read a book by Michael Crichton called State of Fear, an entertaining thriller about eco-terrorists
    but which contains a lot of factual information about climate change
    and even lists the scientific articles to back it all up.

    The book is certainly an odd creation of speculation, fiction,
    >and fact.

    Sometimes the only way to get facts in front of people is to
    include them in a fantasy environment. It makes me think about
    all the Sci-Fi books by authors who are often highly educated
    scientists (Like Isaac Asimov, Arthur C. Clarke and Carl Sagan)
    who used entertaining stories to get some actual science into
    the heads of mostly young readers.

    ---
    * SLMR Rob * The moral majority is neither
    * Origin: Capitol City Online (618:250/1)
  • From Rob Mccart@618:250/1 to MIKE POWELL on Fri Dec 12 09:05:29 2025
    Yes, we may have a slight influence on things but in the scale of
    >> the world I don't think we have much of an effect.
    >> In any case, if we started it we won't be able to stop it for
    >> probably hundreds of years because we aren't going to stop making
    >> carbon any time soon..

    Oh, of course we can! All we have to do is give in and stop using cars and
    >start eating the bugs and the lab-grown goo they caringly supply us with...
    >while they sit back and eat steaks and fly in private jets.

    The infamous 'They'.. B)

    Even if it were everyone trying to stop carbon output, with the number
    of people in the world spread far and wide, those needing to generate
    heating or cooling would still be adding to it.

    Plus there's another issue at work. Now that it's mostly warmer and
    dryer in a lot of areas you hear about how many more forest fires
    there are now compared to even the recent past . Trees are known to
    soak up carbon but that means they release it all at once when they
    burn. And the melting permafrost is releasing carbon that has been
    trapped under the ice for hundreds or thousands of years so, once it
    starts, there's almost no way to stop it..

    Although.. I hear we are overdue for an Ice Age.. Those often are
    pretty good at cutting down the population, which is really the
    main problem. I heard once that some scientific group worked out
    that the world could safely support about 50 million humans in total
    without doing any damage to the planet..

    There are lots of numbers if you try to look that up but most are
    based on being able to feed the population, not on the population
    not doing any harm to the world. Most estimates come out a lot
    lower than the current population though.

    ---
    * SLMR Rob * It's not hard to meet expenses; they're EVERYWHERE!
    * Origin: Capitol City Online (618:250/1)
  • From Mike Powell@618:250/1 to ROB MCCART on Fri Dec 12 10:40:43 2025
    Oh, of course we can! All we have to do is give in and stop using cars and
    >start eating the bugs and the lab-grown goo they caringly supply us with...
    >while they sit back and eat steaks and fly in private jets.

    The infamous 'They'.. B)

    In this case, some of "they" have names... Bill Gates, Klaus Schwab, Greta Thunberg (sp?)... those "theys". :D

    Plus there's another issue at work. Now that it's mostly warmer and
    dryer in a lot of areas you hear about how many more forest fires
    there are now compared to even the recent past . Trees are known to
    soak up carbon but that means they release it all at once when they
    burn. And the melting permafrost is releasing carbon that has been
    trapped under the ice for hundreds or thousands of years so, once it
    starts, there's almost no way to stop it..

    Some of what you describe here... drier in places and wetter in others...
    is man-made. When you are diverting large amounts of water into areas to create a desert oasis for the rich... complete with many well kept golf
    courses per-capita... and away from the fertile crop areas, forests, and mountains, you are changing the likelihood of rain in those previously wet areas. They are not as humid as they should be because the water the rain cycle feeds off of has been diverted elsewhere. So the forested parts get drier and burn more easily.

    There are lots of numbers if you try to look that up but most are
    based on being able to feed the population, not on the population
    not doing any harm to the world. Most estimates come out a lot
    lower than the current population though.

    Yeah, feeding the population has always been the challenge.

    Mike

    * SLMR 2.1a * Squirrels swim on their backs to keep their nuts dry!
    --- SBBSecho 3.28-Linux
    * Origin: Capitol City Online (618:250/1)
  • From Rob Mccart@618:250/1 to MIKE POWELL on Sun Dec 14 07:55:08 2025
    Some of what you describe here... drier in places and wetter in others...
    >is man-made. When you are diverting large amounts of water into areas to
    >create a desert oasis for the rich... complete with many well kept golf
    >courses per-capita... and away from the fertile crop areas, forests, and
    >mountains, you are changing the likelihood of rain in those previously wet
    >areas. They are not as humid as they should be because the water the rain
    >cycle feeds off of has been diverted elsewhere. So the forested parts get
    >drier and burn more easily.

    Yes, they do some things that can make a difference. I was reading the
    other day about where some North American Colonization caused a large
    amount of land that was farmland to be abandoned to nature and it
    was slowly taken over by forest, and that changed the climate over
    huge areas. One must assume that when forests were originally cut
    down to create farmland, the reverse problem was created but that was
    long enough ago people weren't thinking about such things yet.

    They are clearing forests like crazy in South America which will
    affect the oxygen created by the trees and increase the carbon that
    the trees tend to store. This probably does more harm than all
    the other things people complain about. Brazil alone has cleared
    over 240,000 sq miles of forest and they are not slowing down.
    Their deforestation is up about 260% over the past 8 years.

    There was talk as well about slowly planting forests at the
    edge of deserts which change the weather in the area to be
    self sustaining but, as you say, the water has to come from
    somewhere else.

    ---
    * SLMR Rob * Yes, I know I'm off topic. Thankyou for your concern
    * Origin: Capitol City Online (618:250/1)
  • From August Abolins@618:400/23.10 to Rob Mccart on Sun Dec 14 09:51:00 2025
    Hello Rob!

    ** On Sunday 14.12.25 - 07:55, Rob Mccart wrote to MIKE POWELL:

    There was talk as well about slowly planting forests at the
    edge of deserts which change the weather in the area to be
    self sustaining but, as you say, the water has to come from
    somewhere else.

    I've read that there a technique of "planting" deserts that
    creates pools for water to collect and eventually turns the
    desert into a thriving place for flora and fauna, and keep the
    sands from blowing around.

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.64
    * Origin: (618:400/23.10)
  • From Dr. What@618:250/46 to Rob Mccart on Sun Dec 14 16:19:42 2025
    probably hundreds of years because we aren't going to stop making
    carbon any time soon..

    Remember that YOU are the carbon that they want to reduce.

    opinions to get the marks back up. I gave up early looking at school
    as a place to learn, it was just a chore to get through before moving
    on to Real life..

    I've often said that high school was 4 years of wasted time because I learned so little (from school) during that time.

    College was 4 years long, but only 1 year was wasted - but that was back in the late 1980's. Today, the same college would be 4 years of wasted time, plus lots of wasted money.

    ... When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Classic BBS (618:250/46)
  • From Dr. What@618:250/46 to Rob Mccart on Sun Dec 14 16:22:18 2025
    Sometimes the only way to get facts in front of people is to
    include them in a fantasy environment. It makes me think about
    all the Sci-Fi books by authors who are often highly educated
    scientists (Like Isaac Asimov, Arthur C. Clarke and Carl Sagan)
    who used entertaining stories to get some actual science into
    the heads of mostly young readers.

    Schools have done a great job of turning kids off to just about everything.

    Even going back 40 years, when I was in school, teachers nearly ruined my love of literature - mostly because teachers have AWFUL taste in books, especially for teen boys.

    I've often said that I am where I am today not because of the public education system, but in spite of it.

    ... Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Classic BBS (618:250/46)